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	<title>Comments on: How Not to Complain About March 4</title>
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		<title>By: Berkeley&#8217;s March Forth &#171; zunguzungu</title>
		<link>http://studentactivism.net/2010/03/10/how-not-to-complain-about-march-4/#comment-7622</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Berkeley&#8217;s March Forth &#171; zunguzungu]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Mar 2010 16:07:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://studentactivism.net/?p=4148#comment-7622</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] to mean “we get to kill people in Iraq,” there’s an underlying truth to the sentiment. As Angus Johnston puts it: “The contemporary American student movement isn’t an organization or a political party. Nobody [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] to mean “we get to kill people in Iraq,” there’s an underlying truth to the sentiment. As Angus Johnston puts it: “The contemporary American student movement isn’t an organization or a political party. Nobody [...]</p>
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		<title>By: James Logan</title>
		<link>http://studentactivism.net/2010/03/10/how-not-to-complain-about-march-4/#comment-7599</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[James Logan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Mar 2010 20:53:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://studentactivism.net/?p=4148#comment-7599</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Apparently, I don&#039;t know the diff between a question and statements...sorry bout that....]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Apparently, I don&#8217;t know the diff between a question and statements&#8230;sorry bout that&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: James Logan</title>
		<link>http://studentactivism.net/2010/03/10/how-not-to-complain-about-march-4/#comment-7598</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[James Logan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Mar 2010 20:53:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://studentactivism.net/?p=4148#comment-7598</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;ve taken a liking to this site, as I feel it gives me a connection to future generations.  With that in mind(and keeping in mind I don&#039;t always follow up on responses but will do better about that, I have a few questions:


1) Mixed messages come with the territory.
 The writer states that they weren&#039;t of all one voice in the first place...and that&#039;s what confuses me.  Sure, students are affected differently by budget cuts...I assume that&#039;s because different programs get cut, affecting students.  My problem is, wasn&#039;t this movement all about the budget cuts that are affecting all sorts of programs and classes?  If I&#039;ve got that wrong, please correct me.  

If I&#039;m right, then, it seems your forgetting the message: Cutting education is hurting students(and from my viewpoint, the future of the nation).    Its an important message.  If the problem is education cuts, you have your banner to fly...now, you have to find a direction for the force.    Protesting IS part of that.  However, its not the only part, and in my estimation not the most important either.  

2) A rally and a lobby are two different things.

Yes they are two different things...but lobby gets you closer to my point: Interaction with the legislators who are cutting the budgets in the first place.   Closer, but not quite there...yet.

The next quote is close to my experience with a local school board:

&quot;I’m having a hard time remembering the last time that a sit-down with an assembly member’s staff made the evening news or attracted the attention of a student on her way to class.  Mass action gets noticed, and getting noticed is part of getting results.&quot;

I&#039;ve experienced a hybrid of the two sentences: student/parent &#039;rally&#039; in support of teachers fired 1 day before tenure.  No changes were made based on that rally.   We did get noticed, with no results...

Now what you are doing IS good; you have the attention of the nation, even if peripherally.    However, there is yet another step needed...(which&#039;ll be my conclusion)

&quot;It’s also important to note that many protesters last Thursday weren’t particularly interested in swaying legislators. Some were working to reform campus-specific policies. Some were looking to build student power in their institutions. Some, for that matter, were trying to bring on the revolution and overthrow capitalism entirely.

Before you tell people that protesting won’t get them what they want, make sure you know what they want.&quot;

This is probably where the perception comes from that there are groups moving in different directions.  Not that they shouldn&#039;t move to seek there own interests are addressed, but, its still important to recognize that they are all under the same banner: Cut education results in gut education.   

If all &#039;groups&#039; only focus on their issues, you lose the steam.    United we stand, divided we fall.   You can still petition those administration officials on campus...but the overall goal is to resolve the critical funding that seems to have put the educational system in the state it is at this moment. 

3)  The disruptions of March 4 were actually really mild.
I agree, as I hadn&#039;t seen many reports about related violence, but honestly I wasn&#039;t really looking either.  

In essence, I think this is a red-herring.  You have engaged the enemy, educational cuts, some what blindly; it in turn was not expecting you to step up to the plate...of COURSE they&#039;ll focus on violent incidence...it sells TV spots, and it puts your cause in a negative light.    I don&#039;t think there is anything to worry about...however, having students dress up black clad, with bandana&#039;s over their faces...well, lets just say that isn&#039;t going to endear you to the audience I really think you should be playing to.

4) Mass action works.

The truth is, in this instance, it CAN work.  The problem?  The audience. 



My take:  The Audience.  


The people you should be playing to, or at least be addressing, aren&#039;t just in the administration, but, in political office.  They are the ones, reducing taxes, then calling for &#039;austerity&#039; budgets and using that as an excuse to gut education.    As far as I&#039;m concerned, this is purely a Conservative Republican/Conservative Democrat ploy.     And if I&#039;m right, then you are playing to the wrong crowd.    In fact, even if you taylored your message to these politicians, it wouldn&#039;t change things...(honestly, if they think its ok to cut the taxes to cut the budget to cut education, do you really think a protest is going to change their minds?)   

The answer is, that right to vote you speak of, is something I&#039;m NOT hearing about being discussed AND November elections are coming.  In fact many local elections are already being held...  

The mass protest worked because it translated the message to the voting public.  I know its a bit simplified, but, really the problem is with elected officials who feel that its ok to cut taxes, but DEMAND that everyone pay their share, as they dip into the city/state coffers for themselves.  

Students need to start exercising their voting rights, start paying attention to the issues that are in the elections, make sure their issues are in the elections and vote for the candidates that support those issues...

I&#039;ve been seeing the cycle for YEARS now:
Republicans continue to slash budgets(and conserva/dems), then turn around and use that to justify cuts in education.     I&#039;m sorry but that&#039;s how I see it, AND if you don&#039;t agree that&#039;s fine...but if you think that both sides are to blame, you need to go back, do the homework, watch the voting patterns of those in power and start choosing the right candidates.   

Whew...(takes a breath).  

You guys are our future and we depend on you...I&#039;m just trying to help...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve taken a liking to this site, as I feel it gives me a connection to future generations.  With that in mind(and keeping in mind I don&#8217;t always follow up on responses but will do better about that, I have a few questions:</p>
<p>1) Mixed messages come with the territory.<br />
 The writer states that they weren&#8217;t of all one voice in the first place&#8230;and that&#8217;s what confuses me.  Sure, students are affected differently by budget cuts&#8230;I assume that&#8217;s because different programs get cut, affecting students.  My problem is, wasn&#8217;t this movement all about the budget cuts that are affecting all sorts of programs and classes?  If I&#8217;ve got that wrong, please correct me.  </p>
<p>If I&#8217;m right, then, it seems your forgetting the message: Cutting education is hurting students(and from my viewpoint, the future of the nation).    Its an important message.  If the problem is education cuts, you have your banner to fly&#8230;now, you have to find a direction for the force.    Protesting IS part of that.  However, its not the only part, and in my estimation not the most important either.  </p>
<p>2) A rally and a lobby are two different things.</p>
<p>Yes they are two different things&#8230;but lobby gets you closer to my point: Interaction with the legislators who are cutting the budgets in the first place.   Closer, but not quite there&#8230;yet.</p>
<p>The next quote is close to my experience with a local school board:</p>
<p>&#8220;I’m having a hard time remembering the last time that a sit-down with an assembly member’s staff made the evening news or attracted the attention of a student on her way to class.  Mass action gets noticed, and getting noticed is part of getting results.&#8221;</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve experienced a hybrid of the two sentences: student/parent &#8216;rally&#8217; in support of teachers fired 1 day before tenure.  No changes were made based on that rally.   We did get noticed, with no results&#8230;</p>
<p>Now what you are doing IS good; you have the attention of the nation, even if peripherally.    However, there is yet another step needed&#8230;(which&#8217;ll be my conclusion)</p>
<p>&#8220;It’s also important to note that many protesters last Thursday weren’t particularly interested in swaying legislators. Some were working to reform campus-specific policies. Some were looking to build student power in their institutions. Some, for that matter, were trying to bring on the revolution and overthrow capitalism entirely.</p>
<p>Before you tell people that protesting won’t get them what they want, make sure you know what they want.&#8221;</p>
<p>This is probably where the perception comes from that there are groups moving in different directions.  Not that they shouldn&#8217;t move to seek there own interests are addressed, but, its still important to recognize that they are all under the same banner: Cut education results in gut education.   </p>
<p>If all &#8216;groups&#8217; only focus on their issues, you lose the steam.    United we stand, divided we fall.   You can still petition those administration officials on campus&#8230;but the overall goal is to resolve the critical funding that seems to have put the educational system in the state it is at this moment. </p>
<p>3)  The disruptions of March 4 were actually really mild.<br />
I agree, as I hadn&#8217;t seen many reports about related violence, but honestly I wasn&#8217;t really looking either.  </p>
<p>In essence, I think this is a red-herring.  You have engaged the enemy, educational cuts, some what blindly; it in turn was not expecting you to step up to the plate&#8230;of COURSE they&#8217;ll focus on violent incidence&#8230;it sells TV spots, and it puts your cause in a negative light.    I don&#8217;t think there is anything to worry about&#8230;however, having students dress up black clad, with bandana&#8217;s over their faces&#8230;well, lets just say that isn&#8217;t going to endear you to the audience I really think you should be playing to.</p>
<p>4) Mass action works.</p>
<p>The truth is, in this instance, it CAN work.  The problem?  The audience. </p>
<p>My take:  The Audience.  </p>
<p>The people you should be playing to, or at least be addressing, aren&#8217;t just in the administration, but, in political office.  They are the ones, reducing taxes, then calling for &#8216;austerity&#8217; budgets and using that as an excuse to gut education.    As far as I&#8217;m concerned, this is purely a Conservative Republican/Conservative Democrat ploy.     And if I&#8217;m right, then you are playing to the wrong crowd.    In fact, even if you taylored your message to these politicians, it wouldn&#8217;t change things&#8230;(honestly, if they think its ok to cut the taxes to cut the budget to cut education, do you really think a protest is going to change their minds?)   </p>
<p>The answer is, that right to vote you speak of, is something I&#8217;m NOT hearing about being discussed AND November elections are coming.  In fact many local elections are already being held&#8230;  </p>
<p>The mass protest worked because it translated the message to the voting public.  I know its a bit simplified, but, really the problem is with elected officials who feel that its ok to cut taxes, but DEMAND that everyone pay their share, as they dip into the city/state coffers for themselves.  </p>
<p>Students need to start exercising their voting rights, start paying attention to the issues that are in the elections, make sure their issues are in the elections and vote for the candidates that support those issues&#8230;</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve been seeing the cycle for YEARS now:<br />
Republicans continue to slash budgets(and conserva/dems), then turn around and use that to justify cuts in education.     I&#8217;m sorry but that&#8217;s how I see it, AND if you don&#8217;t agree that&#8217;s fine&#8230;but if you think that both sides are to blame, you need to go back, do the homework, watch the voting patterns of those in power and start choosing the right candidates.   </p>
<p>Whew&#8230;(takes a breath).  </p>
<p>You guys are our future and we depend on you&#8230;I&#8217;m just trying to help&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Richard Estes</title>
		<link>http://studentactivism.net/2010/03/10/how-not-to-complain-about-march-4/#comment-7589</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Richard Estes]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Mar 2010 20:09:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://studentactivism.net/?p=4148#comment-7589</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Excellent post, one that I used as a springboard to further analysis over at my blog, &lt;i&gt;American Leftist&lt;/i&gt;.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Excellent post, one that I used as a springboard to further analysis over at my blog, <i>American Leftist</i>.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: dettman</title>
		<link>http://studentactivism.net/2010/03/10/how-not-to-complain-about-march-4/#comment-7476</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[dettman]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Mar 2010 19:12:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://studentactivism.net/?p=4148#comment-7476</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Great. Correct on all counts. Most critiques are either entirely ahistorical or make unfavorable comparisons between present-day activism and mythologized versions of the Free Speech and Civil Rights movements. Also, don&#039;t forget the specter of the &quot;professional protestor&quot; a.k.a. &quot;outside agitator&quot; that the media likes to blame everything on.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great. Correct on all counts. Most critiques are either entirely ahistorical or make unfavorable comparisons between present-day activism and mythologized versions of the Free Speech and Civil Rights movements. Also, don&#8217;t forget the specter of the &#8220;professional protestor&#8221; a.k.a. &#8220;outside agitator&#8221; that the media likes to blame everything on.</p>
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