For Daniel Tosh, Actually Assaulting Women Is Comedy

Daniel Tosh,
I am so sorry that you are so insecure that you have to joke about raping women to feel self confident. Please leave the comedy scene you are not funny.

For the person who posted this
THANK YOU!

lol @ lightly touching belly fat= sexual asault

I’m not defending him, just wondering why the crying starts when his jokes are on women, and not men. Why don’t people complain about his racist humour? FYI, if a person feels like a crime has been committed against them, there are legal avenues they can take, just as much against the offender as the person that encouraged the offender. So let me know when those charges are laid, and then I’ll consider this a serious issue.

Marty, you tell me why there wasn’t outrage about him telling men to punch each other in the balls. I don’t know. I certainly don’t want to be punched in the balls, and would press charges against any man or woman that did that to me. If you want to raise an issue out of it, then go ahead.

Do you think that excuses him from telling a woman it’d be funny if five guys raped her? That’s quite the misogynistic attitude there. “I don’t mind violence against men, so nobody else should mind violence against women.”

I think this woman did the wrong thing in interrupting his act – she should have just left. But that doesn’t excuse his behaviour. He could have handled it better, like simply said “there’s the door, use it” and gone on with his act.

Once again, I’m not defending him, I’m making another point entirely. His comedy club outburst was shamefully, and he rightfully apologised for it, as far as I’m aware. That doesn’t excuse it, not at all, but it demonstrates an acknowledgement that something needed to be apologised for.

And furthermore, I agree with Sam – there is a strong whiff of militant feminism behind this entire outcry. It is a loud outcry, but it seems to be coming from a minority of butthurt women (and their pining male underlings) that think their rights are more important than everyone else’s.

Angus… what would you do exactly? I’m detecting a hint of intimidation from you, with the suggestion of your size. Are you saying that you would attack someone that did this to you? For touching you, you’re going to physically harm them? I have read a lot of your work the past year, since you first started writing about Occupy, and have had a degree of respect for you, up until now. Big men that use intimidation to get their way are pretty different from a suggestion to just touch someone’s fat. Big men that think with intimidation, IMO, as you just did, don’t often fare too well at thinking of peaceful alternatives.

He’s also shown the rape of a teen boy on his Tv show, Tosh.0 The youtube video he’s shown was taken down last night after we reported it, but here’s a write up on what’s in it. *Trigger Warning* http://feminist-armchair-regime.blogspot.com/2012/07/shows-rape-of-teen-boy-that-tosh-showed.html

But obviously this is a man that not only makes rape jokes, but condones and even encourages assault.

I’m sorry but I’m not a militant feminist, I just find it completely it poor taste to encourage 5 men to rape a woman. Quite frankly there is nothing funny about rape ever.

As I have pointed out, I’m not defending him. I’m using a little thing called perspective. Try some. As a member of one of these “marginalised groups” myself, I’ve been able to see that he is, in fact, an equal-opportunity jokester – all marginalised groups are offended equally. And seriously, why would you watch a comedy show or go to a comedy club if you’re going to be easily offended? WHY?

Angus, that’s because someone putting their hand on your belly isn’t violence. The last person that stood over me for something soon found out I’m not very easily intimidated – at a mere 5’8″ myself, bravery like that has come at a cost to my wits on occasion, however I’m also not the kind of person to behave in the manner that Tosh has suggested, nor am I the kind of person to give people reason to stand over me, unless they’re just the kind that feel the need to stand over me cuz I’m small.

Perhaps as a student of semiotics, text and culture, I’ve simply over-analysed you self-description and gotten the wrong connotations from it. Perhaps a lot of people are misreading intended meanings lately.

Guys, we’re just getting some PERSPECTIVE on rape jokes. It’s so refreshing to have an Internet Dude’s perspective on rape, rather than the fatcat lobbyists at Big Sexual Violence Survivors.

And won’s somebody PLEASE think of the poor comedians who have to…uhh, face no consequences whatsoever…when they routinely are racist, sexist and homophobic. They are the true victims here! Just like Joe Paterno.

Angus, thank you for posting this and Kevin, thank you for being supportive!

Ryan, comedy is an art in which heckling is, if I’m not mistaken, seen as part of the gig. If the rape joke happened as described, and Tosh was simply responding to a heckler, it could have been done in a way that did not trivialize rape or the woman you’re calling a heckler – perhaps, if he meant his joke as some form of irony about rape culture (which I doubt, given the trend I’ve seen in his humor to trash already marginalized groups), he might have made a sharp comment that lampooned her missing his entire point, or something.

But he didn’t. His comment specifically set her up to be a target of violence, even if it was imaginary violence.

Now, if events happened differently, certainly I would reconsider my opinion of that particular event, although not his systematic marginalization of oppressed groups, but if it did happen? He was, of course, free to voice his [bad] joke and, as such, has to face the consequences of his freedom to voice that joke.

Lindy West gives a good rundown of precisely what a comedian is entitled to, freedom-wise, over here: http://jezebel.com/5925186/how-to-make-a-rape-joke

If someone, male or female, touches me anywhere without my consent, I will not hesitate to break their nose just like I did to the bastard who tried this on me.

His nose didn’t heal right, had to be re-broken twice. :D

That being said, rape of ANYONE, men or women, is never funny. Daniel Tosh is an infantile prick.

Whats worse, jokes about rape or murder?

Why go to a comedy show and complain about a joke? She was a heckler. If the heckler wins, he loses the audience. I thought it was hilarious. Women (or girls as your acting) complaining about a comedians jokes is like vegetarians complaining on how “violently” lettuce is picked. This is 2012 and we complain about a woman who got put in her place for attempting to ruin a special? I would of done the same thing. This makes me feel better about my life by comparing it to people that try to take out a comedian

Don’t forget this clip of Tosh on Comedy Central laughing at and then mimicking the actual rape of Gaddafi.

As a male, people saying we having literally nothing to worry about are insane, yeah I probably won’t get raped, but if I walk through a city I’m not going to walk through the shitty parts because I would rather not get robbed or murdered for my cell phone #Stop the Robber/Murder Culture!

Angus, thank you so much for writing this piece. As another rape survivor, I cannot tell you how much appreciate this, as well as your calm, intelligent, and consistent replies to many of the comments you are receiving.

Angus you are a complete vagina. You are one of these tools that things you are tremendous example of a human because you are willing to redefine anything that could even be considered mildly offensive or inappropriate as a crime. If a stranger with a video camera touches me, I may very well kick his a$$. But if you think I’m calling the cops and pressing charges, your wrong. Real men leave the hysteric, sanctimonious, money grubbing pansy antics to f@ggots like you.

If lightly touching somebody’s stomach without their consent is “physical assault” then there are millions of ticklers that ought to be in jail right now.

Hey Angus have you seen this Tosh challenge? It’s known as “Slap, Lick, Fondle” It has some dick grabbing as you suggested would be the equal of “lightly touching” a stomach.

Criminals act like criminals news at 11. The majority of murders are committed by people you know to, doesn’t mean you can’t be proactive about it.

Also the one person who mentioned she took a different route home because of fear of criminal activity, that sounds like avoiding the bad parts of town to me.

Now imagine I punch the guy who touched me because he’s a stranger and what the hell. Then, I don’t blame any of this on Daniel Tosh because I’m not a moron.

Daniel Tosh and his followers aren’t real men anyway, real men protect and care for the women in their lives, not make insane jokes about their belly fat and raping them and generally real men confront and destroy the ones that do.

Chris Brown is still making records and Ben roethlisberger is still playing football yet you’re all up in arms about tosh. Yeah he was out of line but if she was in his audience she knew what kind of humor he has and if had the balls to yell out, she knew what to expect if she was going to be a rude audience member so i don’t want to hear it making that women out to be a victim she wasn’t so helpless herself. Get over yourselves trying to fight for women when it’s bad all over, like this is what should be news right, a comedien doing his job, not bullying around the world where a 13 yr old was assaulted in a mechanic shop by two older men. You all are something else.

Angus, I’m really glad you’ve let us see even the gratuitously offensive comments, because it’s been so illustrative of exactly the point you’re trying to make. Again and again, folks defending Tosh’s rape humor as no big deal feel free to refer to those taking offense as “vagina”, “militant feminist,” “butthurt women”, “mangina”, “feminazi”, “pms’ing bitches”, “f@ggot”, “pansy”, “overly dramatizing”, “hysteric”, “moron”. (And that’s just from this followup post — the comments on your original post feature some beauts as well.)

Anytime anyone feels like saying that this has nothing to do with gender or that women have no reason to feel especially targeted or threatened compared with men or any other group — that everyone should just lighten up and get over themselves because it’s just a joke — take a look at the ugliness that’s found hand in hand with that defense.

Feminist women are reduced to their genitalia, men are emasculated, and both are portrayed as being overemotional and/or cognitively challenged. And most ironically, even when these commenters include an obligatory assurance that of course rape is wrong, the narrow focus of their ad hominem language conveys the exact opposite — that if you disagree with me, you are nothing but an emasculated orifice, unworthy of personhood and incapable of meaningful expression.

Also, a quick note to Ryan: I get what you’re saying about wanting to give benefit of the doubt as to what Tosh may or may not have said until firmer evidence is available. I’m willing to give him the benefit of *some* doubt, certainly. But I’d argue that Tosh’s past record is absolutely relevant to determining the amount of actual doubt I’m willing to give him the benefit of. If I read a blog post describing the same events at a stand-up show by some comedian whose reputation I knew to be pro-women or even someone I’d never heard of and knew nothing about, I might wonder if the story had been overreported or something had somehow been misconstrued. But with Tosh, this very post and the attached comments show a number of other incidents where he has capitalized on *actual* assault for his act or tv show. That shifts the balance considerably, and for me lends a great deal of inherent plausibility to the story as told. No, I can’t say for sure whether it *did* happen exactly that way. But the cumulative evidence of the reports and Tosh’s past behavior make me believe, on balance, that it probably did, until new facts come to light to shift that balance. And until then, yes, I think it’s fair to hold him to account for it.

I’d like thank Angus for the article, and for continuing to defend women in this response column. I’d also like to give a shout out to Kevin for your eloquence on the subject. I’d also like to thank the other men who have come to the defense of women in this comment area. As you can see by the one-name or one-letter usernames posted by women, we tend not to feel as comfortable revealing our identities online in regard to a topic like this. Rape is something, that women think about every single day, whether on a public street, at a friend’s party, or at home, alone. As a topic of conversation, rape leaves us feeling even more vulnerable than the usually unexpressed anxiety about being attacked, particularly when it is either dismissed as a non-issue or as an issue only for over-sensitive crybabies. It’s even worse to find rape levelled against women as a form of insult. “You should be raped”, “I hope you get raped”, etc. Fortunately, I haven’t seen any of those particular comments in response to this article, but I have read them over and over again by commenters on female blogs and Twitter over the past several days on this and other feminist issues. So thank you to the guys who vehemently and consistently believe that hoping women get raped isn’t funny or acceptable.

For my part, in regard to the heckling, I have to say that the woman isn’t looking for fame. Her name has not been made public, she is not doing TV appearances, and her story was told anonymously on a friend’s blog. So the attention-whore accusation doesn’t stand as far as I’m concerned. I also believe her account, partly because I was in a similar situation once. At an orientation for a new job, the woman hosting the orientation asked everyone if a woman who is dressed provacatively deserves to be raped. The answer was almost uniquivocally “NO” for most of the men and women there, but there was some debate in which one man, as his argument, just kept saying “yes” and then describing the possible outfit the hypothetical victim would be wearing. The vehemence and unthinking repetition of his argument upset me to the point to which I started crying and I had to leave the room. Now, was I oversensitive? Maybe. I’d spent 10 years as an agoraphobic, and this was the first group interaction I’d had since high school. But was I trying to get attention? Hell no. It was the first day of my new job, and I hate having people see me cry. I don’t like showing vulnerability, and I certainly didn’t want to seem weak in front of my new employers and coworkers. The response that I had to this man’s comment was involuntary, and I believe that Tosh’s “heckler” had a similar experience. Honestly, I wish that I had been brave enough to just tell the guy to stuff it, but at that point I didn’t have the emotional strength to do that. Now, I’d like to point out that I’ve never been raped. Experiences of molestation of a child, however, made me incredibly sensitive on the subject. Again, overly-sensitive? Possibly. But I don’t believe that the woman in Tosh’s audience could actually stop herself from yelling out like that, any more than I could stop myself from crying on my first day of work.

In regard to Tosh’s actual comment toward the woman — I think people say stupid things, sometimes. He said a stupid, insensitive, unkind thing that was, as it has been said before, to “put her in her place”. I think that the context of “her place” has as much to do with her gender as it does with her being an audience member, but I don’t really want to go into that aspect right now. I don’t think Tosh is an evil rapist who likes it when guys rape women. And I do believe, sorry, I mean hope that he regretted the harshness of his response. The thing is that Tosh is a symptom, not the disease — and the worst part is that he’s an unwitting symptom. He perpetrates hateful stereotypes and laughs at things that aren’t funny as though they are. The point of his comedy isn’t to edify us in the face of racism and sexism. He really celebrates these things. That’s the shame of Tosh. The shame of some of the responses to this article is that some men seem to believe that women overexaggerate their reactions to rape and topics of rape in order to beat men over the head with their own misogyny. This isn’t true. We’re upset about rape because we don’t like being raped. We’re upset that you don’ seem to care about rape, because it means that our being raped is okay with you.

In regard to the straw man argument of “I can’t tolerate jokes about midgets” — y’know, I don’t like jokes that come at the expense of midgets or little people. The fact that this is your straw man, as though being upset about the degredation and exploitation of an entire group of people who are marginalized along with women, gays, non-Christians, and non-whites is upsetting. Worse, the argument that men get murdered and robbed, so we shouldn’t care about women getting raped is, just an awful and transparent deflection. Shame on you.

Ryan: Whether she was heckling or not is irrelevant, considering either way his comment was out of line and completely uncalled for (as you admit). There are dozens of things he could have said (“Then why is everyone else laughing?”/”They are if you have a sense of humor”/whatever), and the fact that the first idea that came to his mind was to jokingly say it’d be funny for the woman to be gang-raped should be seen as a problem. The fact that his comment was or could be considered a clever comeback, by him or by others, should be seen as a problem. Saying “she was heckling, so she should have expected some kind of comeback” is valid, but arguing that she should have expected him to say it’d be funny if she got gang-raped isn’t. For getting a response like that, she is a victim (just like how if a female comic had jokingly said a guy deserves to be castrated for speaking during her show, he’d also be a victim, even if he was a heckler; just like how if a black guy boos a comic’s joke and the comic tells him to leave the club and get back to the plantation, he’s a victim, even though he booed the comic’s joke). Heckling isn’t necessarily respectful, but the reaction to rude behavior should be equal to the behavior. If some guy punches me and I retaliate by pulling out a gun and shooting him in the face, does the guy I just shot really not deserve to be called a victim of some sort?

Also, saying that the fact that others found it funny isn’t proof of her being over-sensitive, nor is the fact that she remains anonymous or that other women haven’t spoken publicly about it proof that it either didn’t happen or that they also found it funny. If I make a joke in a RC church about clubbing Protestants and all the Christians laugh except for a few Protestants, that doesn’t mean that those Protestants are being over-sensitive (and yes, I think it’s fair to assume the majority of his crowd was male, given the types of jokes he goes for). And given the amount of people getting so worked up about the offense to Tosh that this post has caused, I don’t see how it’s surprising to anyone that the woman hasn’t stepped forward publicly to disclose her identity. Nor do I see how it’s surprising how other offended parties may not feel motivated to speak out either, given the backlash. So let’s not use speculation about other people’s motives as proof that her perogative was to become offended.

I’ve been drugged and raped in my own house, almost of my friends have been raped, I’ve had men touch me and even look down my shirt for a “peek”. If we are raped, WE are held accountable, NOT the rapist: what were you wearing? Why were you out so late? How much did you drink?
Why isn’t the criminal held accountable? I challenge any man to live as a women for one month. You have no idea how fucked up and misogynistic our society is.

Holdyourdevil, okay, anywhere in my comment did you see that I was discounting feelings of people who’ve been groped maliciously? No. I used the wonderful word “I”. This word is used to relay my own experiences and feelings. *I* would probably laugh after being confused, as I previously stated. You might feel violated and victimized. I don’t know. I don’t know you, nor do I know everybody and everybody’s feelings and life experiences. Do you?

As for Tosh’s sarcasm: I didn’t condone the dildo fight. I never mentioned the dildo fight. I said sarcasm is part of his delivery in his stand-up. And, no, it wasn’t rape imo. It was humiliating and psycho and sexual assault (though no charges were probably made). It was no worse than the shit that Jackass used to do to each other. And, no, that doesn’t mean that I condone kids emulating the guys on Jackass nor do I condone Jackass pranks in general. But, I do find it funny in a cringe-worthy sort of way. Starting to get off topic…

To answer your direct question: You DON’T find sarcasm in the fact that he’s showing this clip. You find sarcasm in his delivery of his commentary on the clip.

@Jason “Get over it she heckled him so he cracked a joke at her. Do you really believe people would just start raping her right there.”

Actually, women have been gang raped in public places. As the woman herself said, she knew it wasn’t likely but she was nonetheless “viscerally terrified.” Because even though not likely, it could happen. It has happened.

The movie The Accused is based on a true story, a young woman who was gang raped on a pool table in a bar because the crowd started cheering for it, chanting “poke that pussy.” An American journalist was gang raped in a square teeming with people after one man said “let’s rape the American woman.” The entire crowd got in on it, beating up her cameraman and going so far as to try and stop the Egyptian army from rescuing her. Out of that entire crowd, only one man went for help, he’s the one who alerted the soldiers. And there are many less famous instances in which it has happened at frat parties etc. that I have read about. And they started because one guy said something like “hey wouldn’t it be funny if we gang raped this woman right now.”

Was a public gang rape likely? No. But it was possible. And rape is a real possibility women live in fear of every day. Statistics say one of out four women will be raped in their lifetime. And for those lucky enough to not get raped, there will have been near misses, molestations, harassments, stalkings, etc. There’s a reason why we’re afraid.

Going back to earlier comments – what’s militant feminism, exactly? Wanting equal rights? Wanting to be treated with respect? Wanting to not fear being raped or actually be raped? I think that’s just wanted to be treated as an equal human.
I think there’s a big difference between violence against women and violence against men. Violence against women is something that all women I know fear and take daily precautions in hopes they won’t become victims. My male friends don’t take daily precautions to prevent being assaulted. They are not scared of being assaulted when walking on the street or getting involved with a new romantic partner. It’s not that men are not victims but clearly, it doesn’t permeate their lives in the same way. Furthermore, I don’t think any jokes about any violence directed towards anyone is funny. But I think it’s unfair to accuse me of being a militant feminist when my daily life is (probably) quite different than yours and you’re unwilling to put yourself in my shoes.
One more thing… one in four women and one in sex men are raped in their lifetimes. When you tell a rape joke, you may be telling it in the presence of a rape survivor and when you do that, you trigger all sorts of horrific pain. Why is that funny?

@Angus, thank you for responding to my question. I was merely curious as to why we would have such opposite reactions. Once you elaborated, I see our reactions would be quite similar until the realization of what was going on. We all have different definitions on what we call intimate touching. If the gag was to grab my ass instead of place a hand on my stomach, I would get pissed. My stomach is kind of an innocuous area on my person. For you, maybe any touching more than a handshake is intimate. You say if a stranger did this to you, you’d take a stand. So, if someone you knew suddenly grew immature and did this prank to you, would you react differently?

“You raped that store”? what in the hell is that supposed to mean?? Did he find a vent pipe and force his dick in it? I’m so glad I’ve never heard someone use the word rape like that. It makes a point that I’ve stood behind elsewhere. The proper use of the English language is declining very quickly. People are getting dumber by the moment.

Phil, that’s probably the best, non-polarizing comment I’ve read on the incident. Commendations to you sir.

I was rapped when i was 15, it was terrible and i struggle with it everyday, but guess what Tosh is funny! I laugh at his rape jokes often. Everyone just needs to stop being so sensitive! If you dont like his style dont go to his shows and certainly do not try and heckle..jeez!

@Stephanie See you find humor in it, what I have noticed is that most of those defending and “prosecuting” Tosh have never experienced rape, not everyone reacts the same, but it seems that all those against Tosh think that all victims find offense.
As a boy I was molested, when people make jokes about it I genuinely laugh, why someone may ask, well because if I get extremely upset about it i’m letting one dark point in time ruin my whole life. I don’t want to be going to a shrink, my “therapy” is laughing and humor. If I keep thinking about it I feel that I am “malingering” so that people don’t expect me to do much work because of the pain I went through. Don’t get me wrong, Initial support is great for those people, but if we keep babying victims I feel that we are weakening them, handing everything to them, not exactly helping them become stronger.
Also guess what, my aunt was raped, my other aunt was molested, unfortunately her three daughters were also molested, and as you now know I was molested, yet we all genuinely laugh when it comes to these jokes. Sometimes I completely forget that moment, you may call it a repressed memory, but guess what I am living a “normal” life.

A lot of the humor behind his TV show is people being really, really stupid. I’d have to say groping a woman because a comedian said he’d play footage of it if you did qualifies. A reasonable person would either explain the concept to a woman and have her clearly in on it if willing, or *not do it at all*.

Oh by the way some people on Twitter ended up saying things like “I’m about to go Dez Bryant on my mom.” Where is the outcry about those jokes. “His mother is a crack whore she deserved it.” Instigating “assault culture” yet I don’t see any hoopla.

Fags, it comedy. If you can’t appreciate it, don’t watch it. Oh yeah, and shut the fuck up. I agree, this article is pathetic. Somebody need to kick Anus Johnson in his cunt