Court Upholds Julea Ward’s Dismissal from EMU

Not that it matters, because no one asked, but I’m a Christian who firmly believes in separation of church and state. If only because once power is shifted to an alternative ‘theocracy’ my own beliefs are threatened — to oversimplify what might happen.

So, although I wasn’t aware of this issue, I’m thoroughly pleased that the decision was upheld…she had no right to do what she did. I’m not a fan of someone losing a job, but in this case, it was absolutely the right call and the decision by the court was the right one.

Just remember, not all courts will act like this, and as i’ve said before, if any of you students even DREAM of not voting in November, you might as well pack this website and other websites like it…IN.

The far right ideologues may not know what they are doing, but they ALWAYS SHOW UP TO VOTE. Just because you don’t like the candidates available isn’t a reason…you MUST choose the lesser of two evils, rather than leave it up to the rest of the electorate to ‘choose for you’.

No, its not a guarantee that the lesser evil you choose(thats if there aren’t any good candidates) will be selected. But it is guaranteed that if you don’t vote, and only right-wingers do, you’ll end up with the worse choice, AND your life will be impacted by it.

Keep up the good work…

David Ricks said refusal to treat is against the law. Is it not also against the law to discriminate against someone for sincerely held religious convictions? Would the outcome be the same if it was a Muslim saying they would not treat a homosexual patient, or is the thrill over this verdict simply b/c it was a Christian who recieved the boot? I am really starting to think there is a Christianphobia in America….

It’s not against the law for a counselor to say “I don’t feel comfortable helping you with these issues, I’m going to recommend someone else to you” Thats the ethical thing to do when we are aware of our own biases or convictions we hold to firmly. It’s insane to say that this is illegal; and would be unethical to mandate someone treat another individual when fair treatment could not be provided.

Julea never expected the department to “accept her view” as the sister in your senario demanded. She simply asked for counsel on how to deal w/ the request that she counsel a gay patient. She spoke openly about her beliefs, as is her right to do so. It sounds like you are saying it is perfectly acceptable for the department to demand she accept their view (in fact, require it through remediation) even to the point of denouncing her “religion”. So we have people in the world that don’t like the Christian worldview; since when has it become acceptable to tell them that they cannot express their views/beliefs, yet every other group (GLBT’s, Muslims, evolutionists, etc) are free to do so? This goes against everything the Constitution stands for and should go against everything you claim to stand on in regards to free speech. Unless of course you desire free speech only if it agrees w/ your view of the world.

To further highlight this case, take the following passage from the Bible:

“However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. (Leviticus 25:44-46)”

I would ask one question of Julea. Would she affirm a persons right to purchase a slave?

If not, then she is clearly cherry picking what she wants out of the Bible.
If she would affirm their right to purchase and keep slaves as property then she is clearly in breach of the ACA code of ethics and is truly not fit to be in the program.

She can’t have her cake and eat it too.

You leave out one important aspect in your Biblical tirade against Julea.
Julea is a CHRISTIAN. Every one of your Biblical quotes is from the Old Testament. The part of the Bible concerning the life of Jesus and the beginnings of Christianity is the New Testament.
In the New Testament Jesus directs his disciples and any who would accept and follow Him, to Love thy neighbor, forgive sinners, to heal and to comfort. A Christian would offer the utmost love and support to your
“adulterers” and “fornicators”. But Jesus also said, once he healed, cured, forgave, or encouraged, ” Go and sin no more.”
A Christian recognizes the need we all have for healing, but he/she also recognizes the reality of SIN and it’s destructiveness to the person.
As the previous commentor stated, when a professional counselor has a potential client that he/she feels uncomfortable with – they can refer that person to another counselor and do it in a courteous, professional matter.

I have to chuckle when someone brings up all the “bad stuff” in the Bible as an excuse for throwing the whole thing out. It is amazing how many people suddenly become experts on what the Bible says, meanwhile most have never read it (except for those few morsels that someone throws out to justify their loathing of Christianity).
Discrimination towards Christians becomes obvious with comments like “would Julea give advice based on the Bible, or would she give advice a competent counselor would give?”-the obvious implication there is that you cannot be BOTH a Christian and competent. Hmmm.
Also, most people are either unwilling to admit (or education has failed to teach us), that many Christians worked hard to abolish slavery. And yes, some of them were originally slave-traders, slave-owners. It was the “inferior” moral teachings of the Bible that caused them to see the error of their ways.
I was reading in this inferior book the other day (gasp!) in Corinthians; it was talking about those of us who were “adulterers, drunkards, liars, thieves, homosexuals, etc”, it then goes on to say “that is what some of you WERE”. That’s good enough for my simple mind to grab hold of and hope for. Because I have been willing to take the “lower moral standards” of the Bible to heart, I am no longer an abuser, no longer giving myself to every guy that looks my way, not drinking myself silly. Even if this Jesus thing is all a lie, that lie has changed my life for the good. I will take that inferior way and you will call me a fool; I’m ok with that.
To say you “believe” something and yet not act on it doesn’t even make sense; the mere fact that we are all reading these posts and responding to them shows that we will all “act” in some form or fashion based on our beliefs, bias, etc. You say that it would be ok for Julea to believe, just that she can’t act on what she believes. So, you are the only one who should have this privilege? Why should she be forced to change her beliefs yet you are able to keep yours (remember that she was told she had to “give up” her beliefs-this went way beyond simply a refusal to counsel someone)? Should we all be made into your image so you can feel comfortable around us?
Not all Christians want to live in a bubble and work in a church, so sometimes a secular degree is necessary in order to pursue the things you are passionate about. The easy thing for Julea to do would have been to allow herself to be “remediated”; she took the high road, and I am quite impressed by that.

Ok, number one…I agree with everyone in the sense that she should have excused herself and let this student be counseled by someone else. End of problem. It sucks she was fired I believe that was totally and completely wrong. Now on the subject of Homosexuality is it right or wrong. I believe it is absolutly wrong. But if you disagree then answer me this. Why are we putting sexual predators in prison….after all in the worlds eyes they are only having sex are they not? Ok dont get me wrong I would put them in there too. But, who is it they are having sex with…usually children…why does that offend us….because they are children of course. but are you telling me what they should do is just wait a few years and then have sex with them anyway. Since you say it’s ok to be gay. Why care if your son is getting busy with another boy or man. Why should age matter since like someone stated they dont wait til they marry anyway. The truth is nobody wants to see their son or daughter having sex with the same sex. Or at least until they feel they are old enough to make that decision. Uh wrongo!!! I don’t think so. Gay is wrong. Period!!! If you don’t think so let me ask all of you gay men or women how you got here? Was it from being spit on the ground or anal. Because you sure didnt get here from the same sex. Which in all honest and duh understanding…you can’t bring a child into this world with the same sex…so you people that are gay be greatful you weren’t spit on out. Does this mean I don’t have homosexual friends…no I sure do and I care for them like I would anyone else. But I’m not a big enough idiot to think I can stand in the way of them having a life. How do you think people make that change…it comes from being the best christian you can be…meaning through the love of Christ…who said love your neighbor as yourself…it didn’t say beat them up. It also said to take your brother to the side and lovingly rebuke him…meaning talk to him and help him understand. The bible was meant for Christians…someone who is not a christian and does not have the Holy Spirit cannot truly understand this truth. Or hope to walk this walk…it must be with Christ and Christ alone. I stand with you Julea. Did you do anything wrong??? No you did not. There has got to be a million or more Christians who would stand with you as well.
But will they probably not, why, complacency.